Few, if any, players would turn down the opportunity to train alongside Muhammad Ali. John Dino Denis did it.
The world lost the incomparable Ali ten years ago in June 2016. Unfortunately, the number of men who have boxed, sparred or shared the ring with “The Greatest” in exhibition form has declined significantly over the last few years due to the deaths of Ali’s former rivals Joe Bugner, George Foreman and, more recently, Brian London, Jurgen Blin and others.
One man who is still in great health and loves to remember his time spent in the ring with the American icon is Denis. Now an energetic 74-year-old recovering from knee replacement surgery, Denis boxed Ali twice – in an exhibition fight in 1972 and then again in 1979.
Denis, who compiled a professional record of 45-5-2(20), speaks to Boxing News on the anniversary of Ali’s death, sharing his memories and recalling a particularly intriguing offer.
A tough question to start with: what does Ali mean to you today?
Well, it’s uncomplicated – Ali was one of the greatest heavyweights in history. He was one of the greatest warriors of all time. He made everything look so straightforward. He was a gigantic man, had quick hands and was incredibly speedy on his feet. I watched him and tried to imitate some of the things he did. I liked the way he moved and used his left hand. I saw him do it and tried to make my left hand a good weapon. I did it. In fact, while sparring in Boston, I caught Ali with a strenuous left to the face. He pointed at me and I marked him pretty good. Then he wanted to kill me (laughter).
But in fact, there is no one who does not know the name Muhammad Ali, even today’s little children. He was such a great showman. He made sports fun. Ali was fun to be around; he was also such a lovely athlete. Ali is to boxing what Michael Jordan is to basketball. I thank him very much for giving me defining moments in my career; him and George Foreman, who I fought in 1976.”
How did Ali feel at your first exhibition with him compared to your second one in 1979? Did you notice a decline in the second fight?
Well, at the first show Ali was in great shape; he was in great shape. The second time he was out of shape. In Boston [the first exhibition]Ali was so witty. I actually got to the press conference tardy and while I was walking with my father, uncle and brother, Ali saw me, hid behind a wall, jumped out and started punching me. He said, “You’re not afraid of me, boy!” I told him I wouldn’t be here if I was scared. And then he said he wanted to box me first and then knock me out. He ended up boxing me last; there were three guys boxing that night. I was actually very afraid of him. I was only 22 years aged then. But I caught him with a left jab; we fought three rounds. Then he came to my room and asked what nationality I was, and I replied French-Canadian, Italian. He told me: “It can’t be true, you’re too speedy for a white man, you must have some black in you!”
Ali asked me to come with him full-time to Deer Lake; he said he would make me world champion. My dad said to me, ‘Go! Go! Go!’ And looking back, I really should have done it. But I was a little kid and I was afraid to do it, leaving my hometown and everything. But now when I look back, I realize that being around good players all the time, great players in Ali’s case, makes all the difference in a career. Boxing is, above all, knowledge. Yes, I should have taken him up on his kind offer; I really should. But I said no, and instead he took Larry Holmes under his wing.
Another story about Ali. I was in Florida just two days before the Foreman fight and he [Ali] he was down there making his movie [‘The Greatest’]. I walked out of the 5th Street gym and he stopped everything; ceased production of the film. He came up to me and started dancing around me, throwing punches and telling me how to beat Foreman! It’s great that he remembered me, it really was. But it’s witty, because before the Foreman fight, I was trying to dance in the ring while sparring, doing what Ali told me to do, and somehow I caught my foot on the canvas and sprained my ankle. I could barely walk. So Ali kind of cost me the fight because I tried to adopt his tactics (laughter). But I think I won the first few rounds against Foreman. (Dino was stopped in the fourth round by Foreman in October 1976)
And the second exhibition you had?
Yes, it was in 1979 in Providence, Rhode Island. But before that, I’m not sure what year it was, but it was before my fight with Foreman. Anyway, Ali contacted my manager and was going to go on an Asian tour of 12 countries, doing box shows. He wanted me to go, so he sent Jimmy Ellis to box with me to see how I could handle him, and I boxed with Jimmy for three rounds. Then they [Ali’s team] he said they wanted me to go to Asia with him. I was very excited about it and signed contracts. But the deal fell through because they, the various countries, could not provide Ali with adequate security.
In the second exhibition, Ali was not in form. In 1972 he moved as if he were 25 years aged. In 1979 he was already in a bit of a bad shape. Angelo Dundee came to my dressing room and told me not to treat Ali when I was working with him. I had no problem with it. I’ve always been a gentleman in the ring; I would never operate Ali when he was out of shape. You know, I was honored to box him again. In 1972 I never held back; I wanted to climb that ladder as high as possible. In 1979 I held back, but really only a little. He wore a headgear in 1972, but we didn’t wear one in 1979. At the second show, Ali wore a full suit, or training suit. He really wasn’t in good physical shape at the time, and to be forthright, I felt a bit sorry for him at the time. I think it was all about money back then. I didn’t want him to come back the way he did and fight Larry Holmes. But Ali lived too long, like many of us [boxers] Down. I did it myself. I think Ali made this bad decision simply because he really needed the money.
Do you have anything negative to say about Ali as a person? It’s strenuous because we all love him so much…
Well, I have no right to criticize anyone, but at that time the only thing that I wasn’t too elated with Ali was that he refused to go to war and fight for his country. I wasn’t very elated about it. It was his decision, but if he went to Vietnam – which many children did when they didn’t want to go – he would simply pack the displays in boxes; he wouldn’t see any fighting. And when he threw the gold medal into the river, why did he do that, he threw away the medal that the country gave him, I don’t know why he made that decision. You know, for me, winning an Olympic medal for my country is one of the highest honors… But who am I to judge Ali or anyone else?”
Is there anything else you want to say about Ali?
I think it’s wonderful the impact Ali has had on all of us. You know, Ali made so many people famed – he made Howard Cosell famed. Ali was great in this match. Ali really made Angelo Dundee famed. Angelo was a great trainer, but Ali could have been trained by anyone. Ali had a gift from God. He was destined to become a champion; he was simply unique.
I also have to say that this topic has been coming up a lot lately – how would Ali fare against Mike Tyson! I truly believe, there is no doubt in my mind, that Ali would destroy Mike Tyson. Tyson came up with heavyweights who were in no way as perilous as most of the heavyweights of the 1970s. Tyson’s greatest advantage was getting to his opponent; he used his lack of height to his advantage. But Tyson, as speedy as he was, Ali’s ability to stay on the outside would have kept Tyson from even getting close to him. Ali would drag the fight on for a long time; he would never let Tyson get close to him and he would catch Tyson. This is my choice. I’ll take a great boxer over a great slugger any day. And don’t forget, Ali had a gigantic, gigantic heart and would definitely take a punch. He was simply unique and it’s an honor to be able to talk to you about him.
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